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| depressant |
 Posted: Jul 16, 2006 10:24 am |
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ネコに風船
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 507
Location: Malaysia
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| well, the first 5 seconds sound really a like. But how could they jumped into a statement that Ai piagarised Mika's song... I love both of them. No one is wrong. The one who is wrong is the reporter who tried to pull Ai down... |
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| mystique |
| Posted: Jul 24, 2006 7:31 pm |
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金魚花火
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 152
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| I don't think Ai would disappoint us like this. Besides, Yumekui is such a cute song and Will is such a tender, solemn song. |
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| Celsius005 |
| Posted: Jul 25, 2006 11:07 am |
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Planetarium
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 685
Location: USA
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Let's put all fanaticism for both Otsuka Ai and Nakashima Mika aside for a minute.
It's time for a debate. Starting off, OBJECTION!
Let's settle this confrontation with some evaluation and facts. Of course Ai didn't plagiarize and there is no proper accusation for it, though they are obviously just trying to bring up the point rather than to officially declare Ai guilty of such a devious crime. After all, how long has this been in the media now exactly? Now there are three important factors that come into play here: ethos, logos, and pathos. I will use supporting statements that fall under these categories, and defend the position of Otsuka Ai. At the same time, I will try to use a pseudo-net-benefit case format to consider the opposition’s position. Call this ridiculous, but it should make sense.
Issue: Otsuka Ai is accused of plagiarism. OBJECTION!
Ethological argumentation: judging character
Of course we all know who Otsuka Ai is, right? Let’s take a look at her general status: she is a Japanese singer-song writer who, I believe, became active around the year 2003 and is currently a rising star. She is beginning to gain a lot of attention not only in the music department, but in many random and miscellaneous subjects as well. HilaryDuffFanboy has provided the Channel-Ai forum with many updates of these Oricon polls, and Otsuka Ai has made an appearance in them (whether or not she was #1 is irrelevant to the issue). She is finishing up with her 12th single, Yumekui, which is accused of being “similar” to Nakashima Mika’s song, Will.
Nakashima Mika’s involvement with this issue is inherent to the opposition’s statement, but her involvement in this matter is unnecessary because no support has been given for their argument. Nakashima Mika is also a Japanese singer. She became active, I believe, around the year 2001. She has been around longer than Ai, thus giving false assumption that she is a perfect target for Otsuka Ai to steal from.
This much background is enough to give fair judgment of the situation. Why would Otsuka Ai steal work from another artist that is very much popular? HilaryDuffFanboy brought up the same issue. Ai is a rising star in the music business, so why would she take the risk of bombing her career with such a damaging move? She is a singer-songwriter, so she makes her own songs; this puts all blame of plagiarism on her, of course. OBJECTION!
I win the point.
Logological argumentation: pure facts
Time for the facts. It is *fact* that the beginning section of the chorus in Yumekui is similar to that of Will; whatever anyone thinks is *opinion*. The statement, however, that Yumekui is directly copied from Will is neither fact nor opinion - it is a completely *hypothetical* situation that cannot support a logical, deductive, or reasonable argument without proper evidence. It is *fact* that the opposition’s statement is *hypothetical*, as I have proved it to be fact with their own absence of cited evidence, and their opinions don‘t matter, now do they? What does Nakashima Mika have to say about this? It is *fact* that she is directly involved, but it is also *fact* that her involvement is unnecessary, as I have proved it to be by saying that the situation is hypothetical and not official. At the very least, having her appearance in this situation will do very little to turn the tide in favor of the opposition’s weak attack; this is my *opinion*, but the opposition doesn’t have a firm foundation for their argument in the first place, so absolutely nothing can win them this confrontation.
They already lost the debate when they stated their resolution/issue, which did not prove a need for change in the Status Quo. How important is this? It is VERY important to show inherency and a firm basis of argument in the first resolution, otherwise anything they say afterwards loses all credibility, thus automatically losing them the debate. This is *fact*, and my sources include my Debate textbook, my Debate teacher, my notes, and the general rules of debate. Therefore, OBJECTION!
I win the point.
Pathological argumentation: philosophical/emotional common-sense
Why would Otsuka Ai want to steal someone’s work? Just because she and Nakashima Mika are under different record labels doesn’t cut it, and neither does the fact that she is somewhat “fresh on the road” draws the line. She’s not enigmatic: she has a bright attitude, a great future that she works hard for, and is getting a lot of attention nowadays; why ruin all of this? What would be her motive? Enough of the *hypothetical* situations, give me valid evidence that supports your claim and then give me some counter-evidence to defend you own position. I’m sorry that I’m not really going for a net-benefit case like I stated earlier, but that’s why I called it a *pseudo*-net-benefit case format! I am taking advantage of the opposition’s weak position, and making attacks of my own. What’s the difference? My claims may not meet up to high-court standards, but it is clearly logical and justifies my position for defending Otsuka Ai. The opposition’s claim could POSSIBLY be true, but there isn’t any reason to believe something as hypothetical and irrational as what they said unless they give evidence! Where is the inherency? What is the significance of this problem, that is, how many people are affected by this? What is your plan to change this? Exactly what does the opposition plan to do anyway with this feeble claim?
Is the opposition aware of how DIFFICULT it is to write a song? Just because Ai is a singer-song writer isn’t even close to justifying that she stole from Nakashima Mika; even if they do sound similar at one point.
I myself have written a song of my own, and it doesn’t have lyrics. In case you were wondering, it’s called
フェニックスのレクイエム (Requiem of Phoenix).
Does some of this song sound familiar to you? YES, in fact, IT SHOULD!
At one point in my composition, it sounds SIMILAR to day after tomorrow’s song, Starry Heavens. Why does this matter? day after tomorrow is on hiatus right now, so it would be a *perfect* chance for me to steal from them, right? OBJECTION!
I didn’t realize that those parts sounded similar until I listened to Starry Heavens again. I can’t prove this, but take my word for it otherwise the opposition is in denial, and that would further weaken their claim. Do you really expect Ai (or any song writer for that matter) to listen to EVERY song in the world just to make sure that nothing, absolutely NOTHING sounds the same? Composing music is *inspiration-driven* and it is completely coincidence if it sounds similar to another part of someone else’s song. If I recall correctly, Otsuka Ai said in an interview that she woke up one morning, and out of nowhere, had the song Shabondama in her head. Can the opposition name a song other than Shabondama that sounds similar, as if Otsuka Ai plagiarized? I assume you cannot because of one fair reason: you have NOT listened to every song in the world, therefore you cannot determine this. Yes, this is fair because I do NOT believe Otsuka Ai has either. In the case that I am defending Ai’s position, I would have to say that it is merely coincidence that Yumekui and Will sound similar in the chorus. Indeed they sound similar, and that is the opposition’s only justification that Ai plagiarized. I say it IS possible that she plagiarized, but without support, there is no reason to believe this. I have used analysis and synthesis, deductive reasoning, and logical explanations as to why your claim is invalid, there is nothing you can do about it right now, therefore OBJECTION!
I win the point and the debate.
See how useless claims like that are when they have no evidence?
I rest my case! Signed and sealed! |
Last edited by Celsius005 on Jul 30, 2006 12:35 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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| zyzzyva |
| Posted: Jul 25, 2006 11:34 am |
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クムリウタ
Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 634
Location: California
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Well, Celsius005, I think you have a career waiting for you in Law...  
*Very* well argued. 
I'd hate to be up against you in an official debate...! 
I never posted here because, honestly, I felt the claim warranted so little attention.
Any similarity is so fleeting and so trifling I'm surprised anyone cared enough to make the accusation.
There are only so many notes, people.
Of course there's going to be unintentional similarities and overlaps, particularly from people who have the same frame of reference...
Thanks, Celsius005. I think you finally put this thing to bed. 
eto... unfortunately, except the first, your OBJECTION! links don't seem to be working at the moment...  |
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| Celsius005 |
| Posted: Jul 25, 2006 12:01 pm |
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Planetarium
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 685
Location: USA
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I never considered going into Law. I'm going to be a doctor after all.
Thank you, zyzzyva!
In a real debate, I would actually do pretty poorly....I don't remember a lot of things.
I fixed all of my OBJECTION! links, so have fun looking at them. |
Last edited by Celsius005 on Jul 30, 2006 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| zyzzyva |
| Posted: Jul 25, 2006 12:19 pm |
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クムリウタ
Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 634
Location: California
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Ah, yes! I remember you mentioned that!
Well, in these litigious times, doctors also must be well versed in legal affairs. 
I know you'll do well!
Those OBJECTION!s are great!
I think my favorite is the second one.
NOT GUILTY! 
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| Stormchild |
| Posted: Aug 18, 2006 6:23 am |
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大好きだよ。
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 271
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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I've heard "Will" lots of times before (I like Mika a lot too), and it never occured to me that Yumekui is anything like it. Every time two songs have a similar sequence of notes in one little part, some idiot starts yelling "plagiarism"! One tiny little part of the melody is similar. Big deal. This happens *all the time* in all kinds of music, because there are only 12 different notes in the common scale!
I'm really getting tired of this nonsense. These people need to get a life and stop slandering Ai. |
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| sakyh |
| Posted: Aug 19, 2006 1:21 pm |
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桃ノ花ビラ
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 8
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| I've never heard Will, & I can't really remember what Yumekui sounds like, but I'm guessing it all happened by chance. It's bound to happen, with so much music today, that one song may sound a bit like another. Just look at Namie Amuro's "So Crazy" & Koda Kumi's "Trust You"....No big deal, [especially if its just a few seconds] |
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| Nami |
| Posted: Aug 19, 2006 5:22 pm |
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甘えんぼ
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: California, USA
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I'm a really big Ai fan, and a really big Mika fan as well, and I honestly think that Yumekui and Will aren't SO MUCH alike as to have a plagarism charge....the beginning few lines of the chorus are a little similar, but I think that kind of melody is used a lot anyway. Like Shimatani Hitomi's "Koimizu". It sounds really familiar to some other song I've heard, but she's had no plagarism allegations...I believe that there are certain types of melodies with highs and lows that are suitable for a variety of songs. Besides, Yumekui is more rockish and Will is a ballad. Not enough striking similarites to be plagarism.  |
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| Naru |
| Posted: Aug 20, 2006 10:45 pm |
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Happy Days
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 119
Location: USA
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| 0_0 I am a HUGE Mika Nakashima fan. And I in no way see the similarity between "Will" and "Yumekui". Esepcially when "Will" is my favorite Mika Nakashima song,so I have listened to it a LOT. It is a jazzy song and "yumekui" is...not. the beat is to slow in "Will" to be like "yumekui" |
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| rainbow12 |
| Posted: Aug 20, 2006 11:00 pm |
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大好きだよ。
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Mexico
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| ^ Exactly what I was going to post |
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