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Does Ai speak english?

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Mansley
Posted: Jan 03, 2007 6:51 pm Reply with quote
フレンジャー フレンジャー
Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Posts: 868 Location: Los Angeles, California
idiom was the first word to come to mind for me too, but for some reason i thought it was wrong. it's been a while so i don't know exactly...i think it is right now?
but every language has idioms, i think. so if we all want to learn japanese, eventually we must deal with those too.
 
KerushiiAi
Posted: Jan 03, 2007 8:37 pm Reply with quote
ポケット ポケット
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 2497 Location: USA
oh yeah! i think it is "idioms"
yeah...because my friend that's from holland said that she had trouble with those...and that their name sounded strangly similar to "idiot" Laughing

yeah, i think Mansley's right, i think pretty much every language has idioms...but i dunno. Confused

yeah, and Fumi...yeah, i think that's why japanese is so difficult for a lot of us. 'cause i was looking up all the words in some phrases and they had pretty much nothin' to do with anything. why is that anyway? Confused
yes, you're right, there are lots of verbs, especially irregular ones. Sad of course, i don't even hardly notice them, but to someone learning english, i can see it'd be confusing.

@ LightDay
oh, what's your first language then? Shocked

@ tsumetai.ame
you didn't speak english well when you first got here? hmm...didn't know that. Smile

yeah, and the sentence structure is a lot different than japanese (in english)
also, the pronuniations are so different. i mean, a lot of the english sounds don't even exist in japanese. and when they turn an english word into one that can be written in katakana, many english speaking people don't even recognize the word. which i'm sure many of you have noticed in music, for one. (i dare you to find "jump high" in u-boat)

do you guys think it's harder for a japanese speaking person to learn english, or the other way around?
i think it's probably easier for an english speaking person to learn japanese. but that's just my opinion.
 
Mansley
Posted: Jan 03, 2007 11:41 pm Reply with quote
フレンジャー フレンジャー
Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Posts: 868 Location: Los Angeles, California
am i biased to say it is harder for an english person to learn japanese simply because i am trying that?
actually i must agree with kerushii...english is a pain in the butt. there are some things about learning japanese i like, like the sentence structure can be changed around some whereas doing that in english might really really screw things up etc. english is a really hard language to learn. even pronounciation is hard for many foreign people.
 
Tatsuka Ito
Posted: Jan 03, 2007 11:52 pm Reply with quote
フレンジャー フレンジャー
Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 918 Location: Surrey,Canada
english is very ireegular, never following proper rules. Slang and the commoners language has no grammatical base. Words as very easyily made up just as i have crappily made up this fabolotabulicious wordy.
And to top it off, its not very pretty. Actually, linguists have even stated its a wonder people can speak english. English pronounciation also requires much movement of the toungue, one reason hwy japanese accents are so hard to bare, the japanese language is toungue lazy. same with lips. Lips move most in the お Sound in japanese (for your interest, they barely move for english oh)

Japanese is very rigid, and grammar rules must be followed.

I dont know about cantonese, but i love cantonese sailor moon oprening:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0RP5UqwiZSU

All i know, is that they said something about buddha, and the word "you" but thats all the chinese i have under my belt. (aside from ni hao, zai jian, and xie xie, but who doesnt know those)
 
+Fumi
Posted: Jan 03, 2007 11:59 pm Reply with quote
上塩タン焼680円 上塩タン焼680円
Joined: 12 Nov 2006 Posts: 339 Location: southern California
I think very difficult for Japanese people to learn English! many reasons:

(1) pronounce sounds we do not have in Japanese, like "L" and "V" and "TH"
(2) too many verbs
(3) too many times for actions, I think this is "tense" for verb
(4) too many idiom expressions we do not understand
(4.5) made up words! don't know if they are real
(5) not phonetic to pronounce like kana, American letters have different sounds sometimes
 
Tatsuka Ito
Posted: Jan 04, 2007 12:02 am Reply with quote
フレンジャー フレンジャー
Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 918 Location: Surrey,Canada
Oh yes, and another reason why english, and pretty much all germanic languages are hard: They conjugate verbs based on the subject. Like, whats up with that?
 
LightDay
Posted: Jan 04, 2007 1:53 am Reply with quote
大好きだよ。 大好きだよ。
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Posts: 254 Location: Water Seven
KerushiiAi wrote:
@ LightDay
oh, what's your first language then? Shocked

Actually, i am not sure. Supposedly, my first language shld be Indonesian, because i live there for like 17 years. BUT, because i am from a Chinese family, i speak Chinese all the time with my family. I am bilingual, but i am not really good at written Chinese, since i rarely use them. And i regret that as i learn its importance when i started to learn Japanese (kanji). So English shld be my third language, but my written English is better than my Chinese. And oh, for ur information, actually it's easier for Indonesian to learn Japanese because the pronunciation is exactly the same. So it's just the matter of how we adjust the way we speak it, not very difficult. And oh, it's also easier for us to learn English too because we have all the alphabets, meaning we know how to use 'L', 'V', and 'TH'.

As for some irregular sentences, actually i don't think we can learn that if we don't participate in conversations more often. There are always shortened sentences and slangs in every language, unless u talk often with others using the language, u don't learn it.
 
tsumetai.ame
Posted: Jan 04, 2007 2:00 am Reply with quote
Planetarium Planetarium
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 706
-Kerushii--
oh yeah you don't know many things! (ok that didn't sound scary at all (it was supposed to be like those scary movies where the person they think they're friends with goes "you don't know many things about me" when they turn evil), lol, sorry I'm being a retard) I'm sure many 3 year olds don't know english (never mind I take that back) but I didn't need it except for school. But now I'm only good at English, lol...

And, no I never heard the English in U-boat...

-+Fumi--
The 4.5 part was funny, lol. I always wondered how you make up words for different languages...

Tatsuka Ito wrote:
(aside from ni hao, zai jian, and xie xie, but who doesnt know those)

Uhm... and 'ni hao' and all those are mandarin...
 
KerushiiAi
Posted: Jan 04, 2007 11:00 pm Reply with quote
ポケット ポケット
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 2497 Location: USA
yeah, i'd have to say that english is retarded. even ask my friends, i say that all the time. i even claim i can't speak english, 'cause i start slurring, or messing up or forgetting words and junk. i speak my own language. Laughing luckily, it's similar to english, so people can understand me Laughing it's the only language i speak. Tongue
and many native english speakers make mistakes all the time, i'm sure you've noticed. it bothers me sometimes, and i correct my friends (i'm such a know-it-all Tongue ) like, instead of saying they "have" something, they apparently "got" something Confused yeah, lots of people do that, especially little kids. and, i admit it, i make up words all the time. like "buttmunch" (a stupid insult Tongue )
"wigglesnorffen" "pigglesnauf" i could go on like this...but i won't. it's just so easy to string weird noises together in english, and we all do it. i can see how it'd be confusing for a foreigner. (i mean, "ginormous" Confused it's a hybrid between like, gigantic and enormous Shocked )
we're so weird Tongue
and the verbs are weird, and often irregular. and sentences can get so complicated sometimes.
and Mansley, you're completely right. if you screw up the sentence order in english, you might say something you really may not want to. but in japanese if you mess up the particles, you'll pretty much be in the same problem, right?

and Tatsuka, it's funny 'cause you're right. we do move our mouths a lot to talk, yet we can talk so fast, and it usually sounds so smooth. and where on earth did the "th" sound come from?! english is like, one of the only languages that uses that sound. and foreigners usually have the most trouble with that sound. and it's used like, constantly. so sorry, people having issues with it. Embarassed

@ LightDay
oh, i see. so either chinese or indonesian, then. Giggle that works. are you learning japanese too?

@ tsumetai.ame
haha, you certainly have an imagination! Laughing
yeah, if you couldn't speak/write/read/ english, and you're terrible (says you, so i'm not being mean, if anyone is reading this, i'd probably sound awful) at chinese...then what the heck did you speak?! Laughing or could you speak chinese back then? Laughing
( Laughing now if you read it the whole way through, it sounds like i'm saying i'm awful at chinese Laughing though i'm sure i would be. like a dying animal...) Tongue

@ Tatsuka Ito
almost forgot!
well, i agree that it may be confusing for them to conjugate verbs depending on the subject, but i've never known anything else, so for me it makes sense. (even if they're evil to memorize)

i like how there's no polite and informal ways of talking in english really. then you don't have to make a judgement on whether you're close enough to someone or not. it's also just easier to understand, i think. even if you sometimes sound like you don't care, or something, i still think it's easier, i mean you don't even have to think about it really. you see your teacher in the hall, you can just say "hi" you don't have to say something that sounds totally robotic. i guess what i'm saying, is i like the informality and casualness of english (see, "casualness" i think i just made up a word Sneeze ) i guess it makes up for all the tongue and lip exercises we do! Laughing

and awhile ago, in french class, some of the kids we realizing just how much we butcher the english language. like, our french teacher was trying to explain something to us, then she explained by comparing it to the english equivalent. and some of the kids didn't even know that was how it was supposed to be in english. Blank stare they don't even know their own lanuage! Laughing then what on earth are you speaking?! Laughing
i turned around and was chatting about it with the girl behind me, and we were all like, "we're such monsters! "hafta" isn't a word!" you know, like "have to" just..."hafta" Blank stare
or "ya know" ok, i'll stop talking now. Tongue

sorry it's so long...Embarassed
 
Ha-Ha-Haru!
Posted: Jan 04, 2007 11:33 pm Reply with quote
金魚花火 金魚花火
Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 172
I find the word "drawers" difficult to pronounce. I spent like a good 15 minutes trying to say that yesterday to my friends. "Dra-dro-dra-dro-duro-drau-breoyithjreotheo" I didn't want to say it Southernly like "Draws".
 
tsumetai.ame
Posted: Jan 04, 2007 11:54 pm Reply with quote
Planetarium Planetarium
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 706
Lol, it's like how people like to call artists who draw, drawers! "It's not my fault if I'm not a good drawer!" "Everyone's people, not furniture." There was a word I thought've yesterday that was hard to say, but I forgot, harharhar...?

-kerushii;;
You make me sound like an idiot! (lol just kidding, since no bad would you be doing since it's true...) Well, there's a lot of things that I used to be able to do but cannot do anymore! First let me think of some... Oh! Like I could kind of jump rope! Kind of an answer to say...

Now I remember the word! It was Straightener. It's not hard to say, but very tricky to spell! Once I was trying to talk to someone about the pop rock band, Straightener, and it took me several minutes to clear out all the extra syllables that ended up in it.
 
Tatsuka Ito
Posted: Jan 05, 2007 12:51 am Reply with quote
フレンジャー フレンジャー
Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 918 Location: Surrey,Canada
LightDay wrote:
Actually, i am not sure. Supposedly, my first language shld be Indonesian, because i live there for like 17 years. BUT, because i am from a Chinese family, i speak Chinese all the time with my family. I am bilingual, but i am not really good at written Chinese, since i rarely use them. And i regret that as i learn its importance when i started to learn Japanese (kanji).

Dont worry, even if you could read hanzi you d still have the job of about 700 kanji on your hand. most of them are simplified differentl from chinese, their meanings are changed from chinese, about 44 that are on the joyo list were invented in japan, and about 4 kanji invented in japan not on the joyo list but are often used also need to be learned. Actually, knowing hanzi is just isnt much much of a help. you still got to learn way more readings that you would have to for hanzi.
 
madgirlslovesong
Posted: Jan 05, 2007 1:15 pm Reply with quote
ユメクイ ユメクイ
Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 1137 Location: USA
I think I might be one of the only people around here who actually enjoys the english language. Giggle
 
Tatsuka Ito
Posted: Jan 05, 2007 4:07 pm Reply with quote
フレンジャー フレンジャー
Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 918 Location: Surrey,Canada
tsumetai.ame wrote:
Uhm... and 'ni hao' and all those are mandarin...

I knew that Shifty

Im so glad we re not on youtube, it seems like half the chinese people on youtube hate kanji.When i asked which version chinese poeple sounded better:mandarin or cantonese (there was a video usually in cantonese, but today in mandarin) he said something about mandarin being the original, and cantonese just branched off.
And then he decided to add that "the japs stole our words but pronounce them different" Blank stare

is it true that other dialects branched off from mandarin? I dont think so, thats not how it works in japan.

what he said about the japanese was just stupid. Kanji combinations may or may not exist in chinese, for example a word in japanese (like 榊)doesnt have to exist in chinese. A lot of people think that. Not a lot of words work like this chinese hanzi=same hanzi, just pronounced differently. Im sorry but no.
Ex:
中:学习
日:勉強


Ps: 榊 Is a kanji invented in japan
 
tsumetai.ame
Posted: Jan 05, 2007 5:59 pm Reply with quote
Planetarium Planetarium
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 706
My mom told me that in really ancient ancient Korea they used to write Chinese, too, before they developed uhm... the name for the writing I forgot...

Actually some of Japanese is like Chinese, except it's been put to fit Japanese, sorry if it's hard to explain. I remember I just saw some, but now I forget... Jeez, I just saw them yesterday, too. But it's like how there's kun readings? I think that's the name, but that's when the word is read specifically as in Japanese, as in it's not based on the Chinese pronounciations, if that's more clear.

Okay I found one that's kind of similar, but I don't know if it was intended. I had no remembering so I serached up words in my dictionary.
For the word of "death" (sorry it's the only one I could find/think of)
死-
In Japanese you say "shi".
But in Chinese you say "si" (sorry if that's incorrect, don't forget I failed hanyu pinyin; and the i is silent)

But maybe you can see a connection?

But most I think have readings not based off the chinese. At least I don't see them often. But I don't think they "stole" it. If Chinese was the language they started with and Chinese people went to Japan and shared their language they didn't steal it. (Also a question I have wondered for a long time, how come hiragana 'n' and english 'n' look similar? I always wonder if it just happened or what.)

And isn't Hong Kong like a british or european colony thing? I don't know how to say it, but once when I was young I asked my mother why in Cantonese dramas they always have English names, and all I remember was something about Europe.

But the reason you got that response is probably just because sometimes people have so much pride in their race, they forget that everyone is equal and every race is as good as the next.
 
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