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| ZeroKenshin |
 Posted: Oct 03, 2005 10:13 pm |
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ネコに風船
Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 579
Location: Singapore
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WAAA!!!! you really took the initiative to teach use all japanese!! cool!! thank you so much!! hope you can share more in your next few lessons!!!
GanBaTeNE!! |
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| Tony |
| Posted: Oct 03, 2005 10:55 pm |
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さくらんぼ
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 47
Location: Argentina
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I like japanese language very much, especially spoken japanese.
Actually that's why I started listening to j-music 
どうも ありがとう！ |
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| Majolica |
| Posted: Oct 04, 2005 6:41 am |
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さくらんぼ
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 31
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Stormchild wrote: Majolica wrote: Please help me - onegai shimas(u)
This is basically just "please". If you're ordering tea at a restaurant, you could say "ocha onegaishimasu". On the other hand, if you actually need help (in a more urgent kind of way...like "help!"), you say "tasukete!".
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Majolica wrote: Ohayoo
Sayoonara
Arigatoo
Gochisoosama
Those should be "ohayou", "sayounara", "arigatou", and "gochisousama". As broken::dreams pointed out, there is a difference between "oo" and "ou". Usually, an extended "o" sound is "ou", but sometimes it's not (e.g. Osaka [Oosaka], and Otsuka [Ootsuka]).
somehow you made me feel like i dont want to do this anymore.. |
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| eyn |
| Posted: Oct 04, 2005 5:39 pm |
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羽ありたまご
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 2082
Location: Canada
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Majolica wrote: somehow you made me feel like i dont want to do this anymore..
Don't feel dissapointed, Majolica! Everyone's loving this thread, you can know that from the huge response other members has been giving so far! I think Stormchild's only pointing out some of the mistakes that you have made in your first post, it's perfectly fine because everyone makes mistake, even teachers, lecturers etc. 
I hope you're not discouraged because of these, we are all learning and it's good to learn from mistakes, for example the ones Stormchild mentioned might be a good lesson for general errors people usually make. I'm looking forward for your next lecture posting, keep up the nice work you did for others! |
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| Tony |
| Posted: Oct 04, 2005 9:39 pm |
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さくらんぼ
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 47
Location: Argentina
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I agree with eyn, if this post is to learn japanese it's good to make mistakes so someone can correct you. I'm a beginner too and when I started to learn kanas I had the same problems as you.
So... がんばって ください and keep posting
PS: Btw, I know it's a bit late to say this but excuse me for my english too, I can understand it very well but sometimes It's hard to me to write in this language  |
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| Stormchild |
| Posted: Oct 04, 2005 10:46 pm |
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大好きだよ。
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 269
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Majolica wrote: somehow you made me feel like i dont want to do this anymore..
No, don't worry, I think it's a cool idea, and you should continue.
But you do have to learn before you can teach. 
When you start typing in Japanese you will find out why things like "oo" vs. "ou" are important. You have to type in Romaji, and if you don't use the right Romanization, you won't get the right Kanji. I learned this by trial and error, so I thought I'd pass it along and hopefully save you some time.
As for the expressions you learned, I'm not trying to be picky or complicate things...I'm just trying to help you avoid getting confused later. Sometimes the simple translations you learn for things are not entirely correct -- such as saying "arimasu" means "yes I have". It does mean that, sometimes, but that translation will lead to confusion later, when you hear a phrase such as "otearai wa, doko ni arimasu ka?" ("where is the bathroom?"), and the answer "asoko ni arimasu" ("it's over there"). Neither person owns the bathroom, you're just talking about where it exists.
I think learning a new language is a great thing, so please keep studying, and keep sharing what you've learned, cause it seems like everybody's enjoying it so far. |
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| enlightened0ne |
| Posted: Oct 08, 2005 1:17 am |
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大好きだよ。
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 231
Location: Australia
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Majolica wrote: Studying in Japan - nihon ni nyuugaku 日本に留学
Just a minor thing, but this should be either:
Entering school in Japan - nihon de nyuugaku 日本で入学
or
Studying (on exchange) in Japan - nihon ni ryugaku 日本に留学 (which is the kanji you have used)
Anyway, well done for learning it; it isn't a very difficult language once you begin to get to know it (nothing like as hard as English  I think)
がんばって下さいますよ、お願い、もしあげます。 |
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| Majolica |
| Posted: Oct 17, 2005 5:28 am |
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さくらんぼ
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 31
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Hey i'll add more soon! i have been so busy lately! |
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| broken::dreams |
| Posted: Oct 17, 2005 11:59 am |
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SMILY
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 497
Location: New York
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| Hey guys, I've found a book on the net that I think will be helpful for those with a little more exposure to Japanese or the basics of any other language as well. It's a free textbook via a .pdf file, and apparently (if you read the preface) he's been working on it for years. I think it'll be a bit confusing for those who just started learning a language other than their own since he writes in grammatical terms and such, but for others it's a good source to get more info on romanization, kanji, particles, counters, etc. as well as to get a more in depth look on the language. You can download the book here, via his website. |
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| Stormchild |
| Posted: Oct 17, 2005 1:44 pm |
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大好きだよ。
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 269
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Tae Kim's Japanese Guide is one of the best sites I've found for learning Japanese. I highly recommend it. He explains Japanese grammar from a Japanese perspective, instead of trying to describe it in terms of English (which really just makes it more difficult and confusing), so you will learn the proper rules for mastering the language. On most of his pages, he has assigned tooltips to the Kanji, so if you don't know a Kanji character or word, you can point at it, and the reading and meaning will pop up in a tooltip.
I also recommend the Kanji Land lessons on About.com. If you're serious about learning, it's not that hard to learn one new Kanji every day, practise writing it, and learn some of the words you'll find it in. Remember, you have to learn about 2000 Kanji if you want to read and write in Japanese, and if you learn one every day, that will take you more than five years, so if you really want to learn, you'd better get started right now! But actually, as you learn more and more, you'll pick up other characters as well, and you can actually learn it a lot faster than that...as long as you're dedicated and practise often.
Before you get into Kanji, though, the first thing you have to do is learn Hiragana and Katakana. These are really not that hard. If you drill on them for a couple hours a day, you can learn each one in a week. Of course it'll take some practise to make it stick, and you will read very slowly for awhile. I used a program called Nuku to learn and memorize all the kana. I'm sure there are many similar programs for Windows. After you learn the characters, you need to write them out a couple times a day, and try to find things to read, for practise.
One thing I want to make clear is that you really have to work hard if you want to learn Japanese. If you want to just dabble in it on the side, as a hobby, that's cool too, but you won't get anywhere doing that. If you actually want to speak it fluently, and read and write Japanese, you must be dedicated, and work on it for at least an hour or two every day. |
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| khafre78 |
| Posted: Oct 17, 2005 6:40 pm |
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さくらんぼ
Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Misawa, Japan
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I totally agree with Stormchild on learning Japanese. This language is a total nightmare to learn. It is totally fascinating, but I can't even begin to describe how difficult it is. I have lived in Japan for 2.5 years, I study around 3 hours a day and I know all the kanji, but I still cant speak and understand well. I need to clarify those 2.5 years though. I work on a US military base in which I have no Japanese anywhere near me all day at work. Plus I am in a small town where it is very difficult to talk to a lot of people because they dont really get out and do too much here. In my opinion, in order to get to a decent point of confort with Japanese, you would have to be totally immersed here for a year, and taking classes at the same time or before coming would be prefered. And it would take years to be able to talk like they do; to be able to use the polite levels properly and to use all the slang well and to know when to talk which way. Some people are very good with languages, especially those that already know at least 2 or 3. Some people are better at hearing differences in sounds than others. So the difficulty will vary. And although I can read decently, it is very slow, and I constantly encounter words that I don't know. The Japanese use sooo many words. They have so many words that translate into what would be a 2 or 3 word phrase in English. For example - shanai means inside the car. Although you can say densha no naka ni and they will understand, they will say shanai, and you will have to learn another word. This happens constantly. It is much easier to read shanai, having never seen it before since it the kanjis mean car inside, but to hear it spoken is much harder. In addition, you have to totally throw out how you think in English in order to speak and understand Japanese. If you only know English, this is very difficult to do. It isnt just about learning the words and the grammar like for Spanish or something. And the words and the grammar are much more difficult than Spanish. But the hardest part is after you know that stuff and you are still making constant mistakes because you dont word it the way that they do. It may be grammatically correct, but it doesnt make sense. For example one time I wanted to say referring to chopping garlic - the smaller you chop it, the stronger the flavor. I was corrected to say - If you make it small, the flavor comes out - Chisakute shitara aji demasu. It is easy for me to understand this in Japanese, but it is a totally different thing for me to create it myself. And you will see that this also happens constantly. Plus the Japanese have difficulty speaking in a way that we understand. They cant help but use colloquialisms, regional words, slang grammar, etc. They aren't used to hearing people speak their language poorly like we are, so they also have difficulty understanding when you speak with the slightest mistakes. Then there are things that I havent even touched yet like politeness levels. I recently wrote a letter to a website with a comment and it took me a long time to decipher their reply because when the Japanese talk to customers, they speak in a totally different way. Understanding Japanese culture is very important to understanding the language and how to use it.
So I just want to let everyone know what they may be getting themselves into. I love Japanese and I find it totally fascinating. I wish I had an opportunity to immerse myself so that I could actually learn it in full. It can be rewarding on many levels, but dont expect to be able to converse in it without hours and hours and months and months of constant conversational practice. |
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| enlightened0ne |
| Posted: Oct 18, 2005 2:26 am |
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大好きだよ。
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 231
Location: Australia
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khafre78 wrote: It is easy for me to understand this in Japanese, but it is a totally different thing for me to create it myself.
This is so true; I don't think that, aside from living in a Japanese environment for many years, you can learn how to "sound Japanese" when speaking.
Still, I actually think that Japanese grammar and vocabulary is very easy. It is very regular, and interrelated. The roots of words enable easy understanding of new vocab, and the roots of grammar patterns allow one to work out something of the meaning of new patterns when they appear.
I find learning Japanese much easier than French or English or Latin, although I will admit that it took me longer to be able to understand normally spoken Japanese than in those other languages. The other difficult thing with Japanese is that unknown kanji constantly appears while reading, making it harder to read than a romance language.
Nevertheless, verb conjugation is simple, and nouns do not have to be declined, so my spoken Japanese is much better than other languages. Speaking and writing in Japanese, once you have the hang of word order, requires much less thought than speaking in languages that require verb conjugation, adjective-noun agreement, noun declension, prefix-noun agreement, verb-object agreement, etc... You get the picture So I think that Japanese is easier |
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| slayerz |
| Posted: Oct 18, 2005 12:25 pm |
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Happy Days
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 103
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Thanks for telling us about those sites stormchild they are absolutely great! |
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| khafre78 |
| Posted: Oct 18, 2005 6:36 pm |
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さくらんぼ
Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Misawa, Japan
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| I don't know about Japanese being easier than Romance languages. The grammar isnt that difficult to understand, but I find it very difficult to use. If I were taking written tests, it would be easy, but conversation is a totally different ball game. As for the vocab, I find it more than helpful knowing kanji to remember the words. It does make it a lot easier. But with a language like Spanish, with very little time, you will figure out that you actually know 80% of the words, just from having a good english vocabulary. Almost every latin word has been changed to an english word. I can read through a Spanish newpaper pretty fast, but forget about a japanese newspaper. Another thing about japanese is that they talk, write, and write in newspapers totally different. I will learn words that are only used in the written language, and I find out that another word is used when spoken. I will take a little verb conjugation anyday over having a totally different way of ordering words. When speaking Spanish, one can almost plug and play the words like you are speaking english with a few small twists. As you are thinking the information in English, you can spit it out in Spanish. With Japanese, you will be thinking something that doesnt come yet, and you have to say something that you havent thought of yet. Like I said before, you have to learn to think in a totally new way. You are learning 90% of the words from scratch whereas in Spanish you already know most of them. And the hardest thing for me with Japanese is that although I understand the grammar and I know many of the words, I constantly have trouble using that knowledge to make a sentence that makes sense to the Japanese. I mean it is a piece of cake now to say simple things, to get around, to get information, etc. But to discuss things and to explain things is dreadful. Maybe I just need more exposure or a formal set of courses, but having self taught myself both Spanish and Japanese, although not completely yet, I would say that Spanish is at least 10 times easier. |
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| yangirl |
| Posted: Oct 30, 2005 2:58 pm |
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SMILY
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 455
Location: Canada
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after reading your commends (enlightened0ne and khafre78) I doubt if you're from different backgound??? ....Beacuse people from different background will have different difficulty in learing others languages ... Seems to me like korean, chinese and japanese can learn these languages very well but romance languages and vice versa
thx M for the great topic ^__^ |
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