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What/Who do you deem responsible for the lack of innocence in children today?
| Society (Traditions, Expectations, Peer Pressure) |
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8%
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| Media (eg. T.V. Shows, Movies, Music, Magazines) |
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17%
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| Poor Role Models (Celebrities, Sports Stars, Older Siblings etc) |
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8%
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| Fashions (Too grown Up, unsuitable) |
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0%
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| Changes in Society (Swearing/ Violence more tolerated in society) |
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4%
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| All of the above |
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60%
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| Unsure |
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0%
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Total Votes : 23 |
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| Cherry_Ripe21 |
 Posted: Mar 18, 2007 2:16 am |
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桃ノ花ビラ
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Remember when you were younger and cartoons were simple- flowers and sunshine, the worst thing on telly was Bart Simpson stating "I'm Bart Simpson - Who The Hell Are You?" and clothes were cute dresses for girls and overalls for boys.
Make - up was reserved for parties and junk food was for special occassions.
Swearing was not tolerated - in fact i myself only started swearing when i entered high school - i kid you not!!
I look around me now, and it seems as though i have woken up in another world; young girls are wandering around in mini skirts and knee high boots and wearing more make up than hookers, cartoons aimed at children containing more violence and swearing than films for mature audiences, Kids bitching and fighting and thinking its okay, G-Strings for toddlers, kids getting exposed to the wrong things way too soon.
Who/What is to blame? Where did society go wrong? Am i alone or do other people feel the same way?
Thank You |
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| davedim |
| Posted: Mar 18, 2007 2:30 am |
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フレンジャー
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 934
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I'm going to be totally honest here, and I apologise in advance if I offend anyone.
My youth was not all flowers and sunshine.
Middle class ignorance bothers me.
Maybe you had an easy youth, but most people don't.
Oh, and what exactly is wrong with swearing?
I'll say whatever the hell I want and there's nothing you can do about it.
It's called free speech.
As for your views on TV...
South Park is awesome and it's one of my little sister's favourite shows.
That doesn't mean that she acts like the characters in the show.
In my opinion, kids have it better these days than they did when I was younger.
And as far as I can see, society has not gone wrong.
Society is far more free and happy now than it has been for thousands of years.
I totally disagree with conservatism.
Also, you didn't include an option to disagree with you in the poll. |
Last edited by davedim on Mar 18, 2007 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| AnimeDad |
| Posted: Mar 18, 2007 6:17 am |
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Happy Days
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 115
Location: Australia
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You missed another option: Parents, and their lack of control.
I voted for All of the above. As someone who is a parent and probably the oldest member here, i've seen more changes than probably most of you. Also, my wife is a primary school teacher and sees more young kids than most, and she would agree with Cherry_Ripe. She has seen young kids grow up to be drug addicts and criminals with the way they are brought up having a lot to do with it. She has also seen kids from the same location grow up to be responsible adults, and parents themselves. Who do you think is going to have a better start in life - the child whose dad is in jail, or the child whose dad takes him to the park on the weekend? I know it's no guarantee of anything, but I know what I would prefer.
Of course, this is just my opinion, just like yours is your opinion Dave. Everyone is entitled to one, and everyone's will be different. I don't think it's fair, though, to attack Cherry_Ripe personally because his/her views happen to be different to yours. |
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| davedim |
| Posted: Mar 18, 2007 10:11 am |
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フレンジャー
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 934
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Yeah, now that I think about it... maybe I was a bit harsh.
I apologize.
But my point was that things really haven't gotten much worse since we were younger (me and her were only born in '85 and '88).
A child's dad could just as easily have been in jail 20 years ago as they could be today.
The reason that a kid suffers has nothing to do with the "changing times" or anything else like that.
The main reason is poverty and it always has been.
A working class child's father is more likely to go to jail than that of a middle class child.
I grew up on a poor council estate plagued by drugs and gangs.
Thankfully my family worked their way out of that a few years back.
But I remember where I came from and so I still fight for the working class.
My childhood was not that way because of what was on TV or because people were swearing.
It had nothing to do with how they dressed either.
It was because of poverty and nothing else.
A starving child is not starving because of South Park.
If anyone is really worried about kids, then help them out of poverty. |
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| benzwong |
| Posted: Mar 18, 2007 11:07 am |
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甘えんぼ
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 82
Location: Singapore
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I think its just natural the society has evolved this way. Children nowadays take more pressure from around them and they need to mature faster too.
3 year olds are hooking up to the computer and im can guess by 7 they know how to surf the net.
When I took a peek at the math textbook from a primary school student, I was shocked to see some topics that were only covered during my secondary school years.
Furthermore, I don't think the cartoons of our time attract the young generation nowadays. My young cousin picks japanese anime (naruto/bleach) over disney/looney toons anytime.
As for swearing, I think thats a very personal thing. I agree that sometimes its inappropriate to use swear words and in an Asian context, its our parents' job to ensure that we do not be rude to our elders.
I've known friends who have never spoken a single dirty word and also those who speak vulgarities like there's no tomorrow. When the child grows up he or she can decide whether it will be part of their speech or not.
I myself have not grown up in extreme poverty nor having a silver spoon in my mouth. My family has enough to get by day by day, so I don't have a first hand experience on how poverty affects children nowadays. But I do think there are many other problems, such as lack of attention from working parents which results in attention-seeking children turning to drugs and gangs.. |
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| Aprilis. |
| Posted: Mar 18, 2007 12:20 pm |
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クムリウタ
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 941
Location: Japan
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benzwong wrote: 3 year olds are hooking up to the computer and im can guess by 7 they know how to surf the net. Actually, I'm one of these kids and I turned out okay... I think.  And mind you, I was born in 1986, so I don't think having accesses to computer in early years is a problem. Rather, it is the control factor that's an issue.
davedim, I understand what you mean by poverty is an issue. But I wouldn't say it's the only issue. If poverty was the problem, how can we explain what is happening the celebrity kids? Surely poverty isn't an issue for them, but some of them still end up with a lot of "problems".
And benzwong's right, kids today are forced to grow up too fast. Kids are dressing more mature, but I don't think they're mentally mature enough to experience the consequence for dressing and acting like that. |
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| davedim |
| Posted: Mar 18, 2007 12:25 pm |
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フレンジャー
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 934
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Aprilis wrote: davedim, I understand what you mean by poverty is an issue. But I wouldn't say it's the only issue. If poverty was the problem, how can we explain what is happening the celebrity kids? Surely poverty isn't an issue for them, but some of them still end up with a lot of "problems".
Yeah, I agree with you.
My point was that there are more important things to worry about (poverty and neglect for example) than little things like how children dress and how people speak on TV.
Poorer kids have many more problems than rich kids, but people on the right never seem to focus on that.
We should deal with poverty before we we start imposing outdated morals on kids. |
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| tsumetai.ame |
| Posted: Mar 18, 2007 2:10 pm |
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Planetarium
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 706
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Wow, I don't know how old you guys are now, but a lot of the people at my school are like that. Man, all the bad boys and girls lol. Jeez! I think middle school relationships are pretty bad. You know they'll never last but you still cry when you "break up"? It's pretty much like... setting yourself up to disaster. Actually I don't think relationshisp for the first two years of highschool are really worth it either. All of them aren't going to last, guaranteed pretty much.
Edit: about swearing, I think some authors can use it so it actually enhances their voice, (of course it should be used VERY sparingly and nothing too dirty) but I feel very shocked when children swear! |
Last edited by tsumetai.ame on Aug 05, 2008 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Celsius005 |
| Posted: Mar 18, 2007 3:40 pm |
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Planetarium
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 685
Location: USA
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Allow me to spare a few thoughts on the matter.
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It is indeed unfortunate that poverty is made a reality in the world, just as it had been back in the medieval times in the era of Don Juan Manuel. In fact, it has been existent for so long that one may come to vouch for its justification by saying that it is an attribute of humanity. Nothing is perfect so there are always discrepancies, society included. Nearly everything today is acquired with money, and those without it tend to live deplorable lives--this I will not deny.
However there is one fundamental that is oft disregarded by all, which is the simple truth that everyone exists because of what they do have rather than what they lack. The same could be said about happiness in general. The definition of happiness is undoubtedly different in each person and should only be based on our own surroundings. This said, even the poor can find happiness in their lives. Granted what they find will not match what a king will, but the fault does not lie there. It's only because we compare poverty to wealth that the circumstances seem harshly incorrect. Of course, the acquisition of survival is presumably more difficult for those living in poverty--this is but one circumstance of life. Neither anything nor anyone is to blame for this either.
Regardless of social status, blaming anything for what we are bereft of comes from one's own lack of morals. There are people in the world right now who do care and are helping the situation, and this is what we must work with for the time being. Let us be thankful for that at the very least. After all, there is no better panacea anyone can give than the one we make for ourselves.
Likewise, my opinion applies to the topic question as well. The children of today indeed grow up in an environment very different from the past, but why is this pitiable? Sure, the frequent vocabulary and media considered taboo turn up wherever we go nowadays, but this isn't something we necessarily need to blame anything for. Everything changes, including the status quo. There's no point to comparing the present to the past--It only makes things more complicated for ourselves. Things change so adjustments are made accordingly. That's how life has adapted ever since the beginning of time.
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That said, I shall now take my leave. Excuse me.  |
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| AnimeDad |
| Posted: Mar 18, 2007 4:24 pm |
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Happy Days
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 115
Location: Australia
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Well put Celsius.
Dave, I think I can relate to where you are coming from. My dad is the youngest of 11. He grew up in the country in Scotland (Yes your country) and their family would be considered poor by anyone's standards - the 11 kids were expected to share 2 beds, and my dad never had new clothes or shoes of his own until he left school (at 13) and got a job of his own. Yet he managed to improve his life by working hard, got married and emigrated to Australia. He's retired now, but he is the hardest-working person i've ever known. I never saw him drunk, nor heard him use a stronger word than "s**t" - and then rarely. Now my mum and dad have a great life, they own their own house and are comfortable by anyone's standards.
Poverty is definitely a terrible thing, but you can rise above it if you put the effort in. |
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| Tatsuka Ito |
| Posted: Mar 18, 2007 4:41 pm |
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フレンジャー
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 918
Location: Surrey,Canada
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davedim wrote: I'm going to be totally honest here, and I apologise in advance if I offend anyone.
My youth was not all flowers and sunshine.
Middle class ignorance bothers me.
Maybe you had an easy youth, but most people don't.
Oh, and what exactly is wrong with swearing?
I'll say whatever the hell I want and there's nothing you can do about it.
It's called free speech.
As for your views on TV...
South Park is awesome and it's one of my little sister's favourite shows.
That doesn't mean that she acts like the characters in the show.
In my opinion, kids have it better these days than they did when I was younger.
And as far as I can see, society has not gone wrong.
Society is far more free and happy now than it has been for thousands of years.
I totally disagree with conservatism.
Also, you didn't include an option to disagree with you in the poll.
here here! i was thinking the exact same! |
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| strangeasianguy |
| Posted: Mar 21, 2007 7:56 pm |
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甘えんぼ
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 61
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Sometimes I blame people for not believing enough in the younger generation. Sometimes the kids that dress badly, or swear a lot, or punch anyone in sight are the kids that are told that they will never amount to anything and that the best they could hope for is a job as a janitor or a job like a stripper. Sometimes when you tell a kid that, you kill his dreams, and what's worse is that you might have killed his future too. Sort of like a "no light at the end of the tunnel" kind of thing.
Not everyone becomes a doctor or a scientist, but I'd like to think that with hard work and support anyone can achieve anything. I got lucky and had parents that told me that from the day that I started living life with my own hands, so I didn't really concern myself too much with what was cool or why I hate such and such for some stupid reason that allows me to swear. I was more concerned with becoming the best that I can be. |
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| Rinoa |
| Posted: Mar 21, 2007 9:55 pm |
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クムリウタ
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 2037
Location: Europe
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Well personally I find that the thing which really does affect kids is the role models presented today. We all know that kids/teens tend to adore a role model and try to imitate them. However in these last few years the exemplary role models are thinning out. Many American celebrities have a really messed up life and usually are dependent on something unhealthy.
People like Paris Hilton, Britney Spears or Lindsay Lohan make my stomach churn. They promote a terrible image of what a female is and are a terrible insult to femminism and human intelligence.
Britney Spears was cheated repeatedly by her (obviously idiotic) husband (when he married her for her money) and she still kept accepting him back. Paris Hilton is another celebrity who I find is an insult to anything respectable. She cheats, she dates guys who are taken and she is always getting in trouble because of her lack of intelligence. Also these super skinny females like Nicole Richie are displaying a very unhealthy message to young girls who are developing and need to eat.
On the male side we have these rappers. I'm not throwing them all in one category but you've gotta admit they promote this image of having way too many women at once, stealing and doing drugs. It's pretty sad how they seem to categorize a woman being hot or not and seem to objectify her.
Personally I'm not worried of kids swearing or violent kids (kids are always violent anyhow. I remember me and my friends having kid fights). Kids must be street smart nowadays and be able to defend themselves if something does come up. I'm more worried about how these kids have these role models who obviously have no respect for themselves and a severe lack of intelligence. |
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| Cherry_Ripe21 |
| Posted: Mar 22, 2007 3:15 am |
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桃ノ花ビラ
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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I apologise for not including an option to disagree in my poll, i thought i had - i had to rush off to do something else, you know how it is.
I have read through all of the replies to this topic and i thank you very much for taking the time to share your opinion - it is very much appreciated.
I also acknowledge that this seems to be a very deep topic- it can be interpreted in many different ways, therefore if i have offended anyone or not included something etc please inform me, rather than assuming i did so on purpose- that is something i did not set out to do.
I myself come from a lower middle class family - i grew up with all that Name Brand peer pressure bullying crap - and it has made me defiant and to this day i have never worn name brand clothing. I consider that something to be proud of, as it means i have not been sucked in by advertising etc etc.
Another point i wish to get across is this: anyone who has seen the movie Mean Girls starring Lindsay Lohan - yes i'll admit Lindsay is not the greatest actress and that movie did contain a lot of cliched crap, but the one scene that will stick in my mind when i think of things like this is the one where that Leader of the plastics little sister who was around 6-7yrs old was dancing to Milkshake by Kelis dressed in a boob tube, knee high boots & mini skirt. How awful is that?
While i have received a fair bit of criticism in my choice of title for this topic, i believe it is true as i, along with quite a few other people who are sick with the way society seems to be heading.
While we can blame it on socio-economics and family situations which have a dramatic effect on a child's outlook for sure, I do believe it is correct to also blame it on the different options i have listed.
But fair enough, as everything evolves, so do the children of this generation, so maybe i should just simply shut my mouth and watch 3 year olds wearing mini skirts and knee high boots, 5 year olds carrying guns/weapons in their lunch box and 3 year olds smoking dope with their "responsible" older "wiser" family members.
Thank you.
p.s Rinoa i agree with you completely, anyone who allows their children to view brats like Paris, Lindsay or Nicole as "ideal" role models needs serious brain surgery!! (To ensure they actually have one!!) |
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| davedim |
| Posted: Mar 22, 2007 3:33 am |
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フレンジャー
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 934
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Cherry_Ripe21 wrote: Another point i wish to get across is this: anyone who has seen the movie Mean Girls starring Lindsay Lohan - yes i'll admit Lindsay is not the greatest actress and that movie did contain a lot of cliched crap, but the one scene that will stick in my mind when i think of things like this is the one where that Leader of the plastics little sister who was around 6-7yrs old was dancing to Milkshake by Kelis dressed in a boob tube, knee high boots & mini skirt. How awful is that?
I don't think that you should be using Mean Girls as a reference for society in general.
It is a comedy and it should be treated as a comedy and nothing more.
Cherry_Ripe21 wrote: While i have received a fair bit of criticism in my choice of title for this topic, i believe it is true as i, along with quite a few other people who are sick with the way society seems to be heading.
Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't make it true.
Take religion, for instance.
Cherry_Ripe21 wrote: While we can blame it on socio-economics and family situations which have a dramatic effect on a child's outlook for sure, I do believe it is correct to also blame it on the different options i have listed.
I'm sure some kids in Uganda would totally agree.
They're starving because of a Lindsay Lohan movie.
Sure, that must be it.
Cherry_Ripe21 wrote: But fair enough, as everything evolves, so do the children of this generation, so maybe i should just simply shut my mouth and watch 3 year olds wearing mini skirts and knee high boots, 5 year olds carrying guns/weapons in their lunch box and 3 year olds smoking dope with their "responsible" older "wiser" family members.
Oh yeah, because that totally happens.
What world are you living in exactly?
You just threw away what little credibility you had to begin with.
You need to take a look at the world around you before passing judgment on it.
What you just said is quite delusional and makes you look like a right-wing crackpot. |
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